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Stardust
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Post subject: 66 cal/cm2 at a 208 Volt Load Center?? Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 6:37 pm |
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2023 5:51 pm Posts: 3 Location: Richfield, WI
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Ran into this today, and I thought I would post it here for comment before I decide to recalculate this entire facility. We have: 1MVA utility transformer with 54,700ARMS available on the 240 volt 3 phase, 3-wire corner grounded secondary coming in to MSD, Pringle switch with KTU 2000 fuses, bus to feeder section then KAL26600 600 ampere 2 pole feeder breaker with 340' feeder, 2x300kcmil copper conductors per phase to MLO Saflex panelboard. In panelboard is a 200A fusible switch with FRN-R-200 fuses then 250' feeder, 1x3/0 copper conductors per phase to QO MLO loadcenter. In loadcenter is QO2100 circuit breaker with 10' of 1x#3 copper per phase to 30kva 240x208Y/120 transformer, 5.6% impedance 208V secondary tap is 1x#4 copper per phase running 50' to a 24 circuit MLO load center (yes, there's no secondary protection and this is not at all NEC compliant). Arc flash label applied by engineering firm on 24 circuit MLO panelboard: Flash Risk at 18" Min Arc Rating 66cal/cm^2 Flash Protection Boundary 208" Glove Class 00 PPE: DO NOT WORK ON LIVE The label at the service entrance described above indicates 12cal/cm^2 Is this incident energy possible? Did they simply assume infinite bus on the transformer primary? Even using the category method and Table 130.7(C)(15)(a), assuming<25ka at that point, we're at Category 1 PPE. I would appreciate any feedback, similar findings, comments or corrections on my thinking before I remodel this whole facility in ETAP!
_________________ DCA
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bbaumer
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Post subject: Re: 66 cal/cm2 at a 208 Volt Load Center?? Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 2:24 am |
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Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:01 am Posts: 438 Location: Indiana
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How are you getting 208Y/120V with a single phase primary?
If I'm following you correctly I would expect the available fault current at the 208V board would be so low that at 208V an arc would not be able sustain itself long enough to achieve 66 cals, if at all.
_________________ SKM jockey for hire PE in 17 states
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bbaumer
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Post subject: Re: 66 cal/cm2 at a 208 Volt Load Center?? Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 2:56 am |
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Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:01 am Posts: 438 Location: Indiana
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I just ran a quick 3 phase version of this and I'm getting 1.5 cals, not 66 cals using all defaults.
Also, I don't see a 600A KAL breaker available. Only up to 250A, but I didn't look very hard either.
_________________ SKM jockey for hire PE in 17 states
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Stardust
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Post subject: Re: 66 cal/cm2 at a 208 Volt Load Center?? Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 5:38 am |
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2023 5:51 pm Posts: 3 Location: Richfield, WI
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It's a 3 phase primary, not single phase. The system is 3 phase 3-wire corner grounded delta (we call it "grounded B phase around here). That second to last load center is a QO130L225, main lug only. It LOOKS, at first glance, like a single phase panelboard with phase A (black) terminated as L1, phase C (red) terminated as L2 and phase B (white) terminated on the "neutral" bar. Thus, to feed the three phase primary of the transformer, phase A and phase C come from a 2-pole 100 ampere circuit breaker with phase B coming from the "neutral" bar. This was Square D's system for low amperage corner grounded delta systems and required "H" circuit breakers, such as a QO2100H, which have a straight 240 volt rating rather than the standard 120/240 volt rating. I should have explained that in more detail in my original post! Thank you for the reply!
_________________ DCA
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bbaumer
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Post subject: Re: 66 cal/cm2 at a 208 Volt Load Center?? Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:33 am |
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Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:01 am Posts: 438 Location: Indiana
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Ok.
I used to work at a university that had ungrounded 240V delta, high leg delta and corner grounded delta services. The corner grounded delta still used 3 pole breakers. Never considered the possibility you describe. Thanks for the clarification.
_________________ SKM jockey for hire PE in 17 states
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JBD
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Post subject: Re: 66 cal/cm2 at a 208 Volt Load Center?? Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:22 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:35 am Posts: 604 Location: Wisconsin
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bbaumer wrote: Also, I don't see a 600A KAL breaker available. Only up to 250A, but I didn't look very hard either. A 600A trip breaker would be a type MA or an LC, depending on age. Is it possible the fault current is so low that the OCPD never trips and the OP duration was set to 1000sec?
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Stardust
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Post subject: Re: 66 cal/cm2 at a 208 Volt Load Center?? Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 7:06 pm |
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2023 5:51 pm Posts: 3 Location: Richfield, WI
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Nice catch on that first Square D feeder circuit breaker - you are both correct that it can't be a KA. I took that catalog number from the previous engineer's evalution spreadsheet  We'll have to pull that gear open to get all the correct cat #'s when we can schedule a shutdown; then we can check settings as well, if there are any. I [u]believe[u] we are talking mid 1970's for manufacture date of the MSD and feeder section.
_________________ DCA
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JBD
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Post subject: Re: 66 cal/cm2 at a 208 Volt Load Center?? Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:35 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:35 am Posts: 604 Location: Wisconsin
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Stardust wrote: believe[u] we are talking mid 1970's for manufacture date of the MSD and feeder section. If it was from the 70s then it would be a type MA. The LC didn't come out in that size until about the late 90s.
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