It is currently Sun Apr 26, 2026 12:42 am



Post new topic Reply to topic

Are you able to "easily" obtain protective device information from the electric utility?
Yes 13%  13%  [ 7 ]
No 27%  27%  [ 14 ]
Sometimes 50%  50%  [ 26 ]
We are the electric utility 8%  8%  [ 4 ]
We don't perform studies 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 52
Author Message
 Post subject: Electric Utility Company Protective Devices Information
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:58 am 
Plasma Level
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:00 pm
Posts: 1736
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
The electric utility protective device that feeds a facility is likely to be the device that defines the arc flash duration at the service equipment. To determine the arc flash duration, data must be obtained such as fuse size/type or circuit breaker/relay setting information.

This week's question:

Are you able to "easily" obtain protective device information from the electric utility?
Yes
No
Sometimes
We are the electric utility
We don't perform studies


Stories are encouraged!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Electric Utility Company Protective Devices Information
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:31 pm 
Arc Level

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:35 am
Posts: 609
Location: Wisconsin
My territory cover 5 states and 4 major utilities. I have noticed a change in utility behavior over just the past 4 years.

In my experience the larger the utility the more likely they are to provide little information for 'secondary voltage' customers. The information they do provide is usually derived from simple look up tables. A fe of these utilities are publishing their tables on the internet, while others treat them like nuclear launch codes.
The other extreme iss the municipal utilities that behave like they have no idea what data would be valuable, often they hire an outside engineering firm because they just do 'billing'.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Electric Utility Company Protective Devices Information
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:38 am 
Sparks Level

Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:40 am
Posts: 119
While I clicked "sometimes" it is more like yes and no. A single option, when you deal with multiple utilities doesn't half cover it. It is far easier to get good fault information, than it is to get good device information.

One utility in our area (that I deal with only rarely) gives GREAT information.
The other (Big) utility I deal with all the time, it is a crap shoot.
Sometimes it is an adventure just to find some one who even knows what you are talking about.

I like the launch codes reference!
Although I think (given the recent shake up in THAT command) the launch codes are less secure, than device information.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Electric Utility Company Protective Devices Information
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:52 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:55 am
Posts: 17
I have a single customer and am retired from the electric utility I deal with. At this time I have a remaining contact in the protection department that will give me the information PI need, both the relay settings and the fault malformation. However, if I had to go through "normal channels" I know who is in charge of that area. Getting information through them would be like trying to get the Russian Launch codes. This is a big utility covering five states.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Electric Utility Company Protective Devices Information
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:35 am 
Sparks Level
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:00 pm
Posts: 52
I work with utilities like PG&E, SMUD & SCE most of the time. SCE charges their customer for giving Utility Information. They provide short circuit currents available at the customer's switchgear/Switchboard/panelboards (Transformer secondary side) and they do not provide their transformer's primary fuse information. Ofcouse, it comes with two page disclaimer.
PG&E provides available fault currents at the primary side of their transformer and most of the time, they also provide the transformer primary fuse information as well. While performing study with this kind of utility information (PG&E), if you build two models: one with primary fuse and one without primary fuse, there may be a drop of incident energy at the Main Service Disconnect, if a fuse is integrated in the model(depends on magnitude of fault current and type of fuse). But I use fuse information for comparison and analysis only and not as a protection for customer's facility. This may look conservative, but it is a case of legality because, in the disclaimer, they(PG&E) clearly state not to rely on their primary fuse to protect service panel or customer systems. But before moving for mitigation and recommendations, selecting the correct type of equipment (switchgear/MCC/panelboard) may also minimize incident energy.
In my utility information request, I include transformer primary side fuse information, but as mentioned above, some utilities provide, some does not, so I checked "Sometimes".


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Electric Utility Company Protective Devices Information
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:29 am 
Sparks Level

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:43 am
Posts: 179
Location: Colorado
Most utilities either do not do the studies them-self or do not have the time to run the study for every possible location. Even when I get study results I usually get the tagline "this is only good for the present conditions which may change at any time" which is why the utilities are reluctant.

Locally, I can only get infinite bus fault contribution on the distribution side and it has become more difficult to obtain the information unless the client/owner requests the information or grants permission (by letterhead) for me to get the info.

I have one project that involves multiple sites and it have over a year my client has been trying to get fault data.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
© 2022-2025 Arcflash Forum / Brainfiller, Inc. | P.O. Box 12024 | Scottsdale, AZ 85267 USA | 800-874-8883