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| Age of Protective Devices/Equipment https://brainfiller.com/arcflashforum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3639 |
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| Author: | Jim Phillips (brainfiller) [ Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Age of Protective Devices/Equipment |
A lot of attention is given to the age and condition of the protective devices. Phrases like properly installed and properly maintained are used. One question often comes up in conversation and that has to do with the age of the equipment so here is this week's question: How old is the oldest protective device / equipment you have seen on your/your client's system New, less than 1 year old 1 to 5 years 5 to 10 years 10 to 20 years 20 to 30 years 30 to 40 years So old - Edison might have built it. |
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| Author: | PaulEngr [ Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Age of Protective Devices/Equipment |
Should have gone a little farther. Most of the buildout in US was 60s and 70s. Mine is 40-50 years. Not Edison, George Westinghouse. Edison=GE. |
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| Author: | Jim Phillips (brainfiller) [ Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Age of Protective Devices/Equipment |
I was kicking around adding a few older time frames but thought at that point, I would just lump it into "Old" and add a bit of humor with inserting Edison. As soon as I did it I wondered if someone would bring up Westinghouse (and Tesla). Anyway, depending on whether the site is East or Rust belt (where I used to live) or newer areas like the Phoenix Area (where I live now) has a big impact too. Phoenix has a majority of newer sites and Ohio had a lot of older industrial systems that date back to pre WW2. |
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| Author: | PaulEngr [ Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Age of Protective Devices/Equipment |
Oldest ever was in an old 'powerhouse' on the Delaware River on the site of the first cast iron pipe plant in the U.S., 205 years before they closed the doors. Igor, throw the switch! |
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| Author: | Jim Phillips (brainfiller) [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Age of Protective Devices/Equipment |
PaulEngr wrote: Oldest ever was in an old 'powerhouse' on the Delaware River on the site of the first cast iron pipe plant in the U.S., 205 years before they closed the doors. Igor, throw the switch! You have me beat. My first (summer) job in the late 1970's was at a cast iron pipe plant in Ohio. It was from around 1900. I recall seeing very old tattered drawings from around 1898. They used to do a vertical pour (into the ground) for the pipe casting back then until the centrifugal casting process was developed. They had "the pit" below the casters with a lot of very old relays and old power equipment. "Igor" didn't even want to go into the pit. |
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| Author: | engrick [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Age of Protective Devices/Equipment |
The first set of arc flash studies I did were in hydro-plants. One Breaker was patented in the 20's(it was the only info available). I coined the term for electrical equipment - wood clad switchgear as they had breakers mounted to the wall, cabled to bus above - all surrounded by wood cabinets. It was beautiful, great workmanship. There was another breaker mounted to a post in the middle of the room. Again, exposed bus overhead. Sometime over the years they built a mesh cage around it - probably to keep the person sitting at the desk beside it safe???? |
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| Author: | Gary B [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Age of Protective Devices/Equipment |
Not just old but also old style. GE Magnablast breakers were first available in the mid to late 1920's, they exist in many plants and indeed a modern version is still offered by Powercon. Does not seem to be a problem. Not too many Model T vehicles could still be used in industrial applications, and of course this would blow the mind of anyone accustomed to computer 5 year obsolescence. |
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| Author: | mauricioville [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:57 am ] | |||
| Post subject: | Re: Age of Protective Devices/Equipment | |||
Recently on a visit to the company of a client, i met with a GE Circuit Breaker - Magne Blast from 1956 that still in operation. I attached some photos for you to watch it.
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| Author: | Namgay Tshering [ Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Age of Protective Devices/Equipment |
Amazing stories and photos. Thanks! I have been to old treatment plants where they have obsolete breakers from both GE & Westinghouse. And to obtain TCC of those breakers, you have to contact someone there who handles obsolete files and it takes a good chunk of time. Some of those breakers are covered in layer of dust & cobwebs and it doesn't seem to be in compliance with NFPA 70E Article 200. And this kind of plants are challenging for arc flash risk assessment, not because you can't built the TCC software model, but because it doesn't look like it would even trip when a fault occurs. |
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| Author: | gvar [ Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Age of Protective Devices/Equipment |
We still have GE Magnablast breakers, vintage 1954, in service. Drawings are in good condition. Closing coil is about 140V DC, from 240VAC in each cubicle, with big xxx rectifier in each cubicle to convert to 140VDC. Trip coil is 48VDC. Project on the books to replace, but gets deferred each year (of course). Also, when I first came to work at this site in 1997 they had a EM 5kV MCC with oil-filled contactors. It was definitely interesting. The CL fuses had to be operated via hotstick to isolate each starter. Thankfully, it was replaced in 2004, but I have to admit it gave us no issues during the time that I was here. |
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