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Jim Phillips (brainfiller)
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Post subject: Being closer than the "working distance" Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 12:08 pm |
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Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:00 pm Posts: 1736 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
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An arc flash calculation study requires calculating the incident energy at a specific working distance from the worker's face and chest to the prospective arc flash location. The working distance is typically listed on the arc flash label. Here is this week's question: Have you or your co-workers / clients ever had to work closer to energizied equipment than the "working distance"? (face and chest) Stories about your own experiences are always welcome.
_________________ Jim Phillips, P.E. Brainfiller.com
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K. Engholm
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Post subject: Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:37 pm |
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Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 5:00 pm Posts: 88
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This is a very good question. Although we try to minimize live work, when we do it, it is next to impossible to say we would never be closer than 18 inches or what ever distance was used in the study. A good example is connecting leads for testing. This not always easy with arms extended straight out to keep the correct distance. I imagine we are not alone with this. Anyone else??
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PaulEngr
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:22 am |
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Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:08 am Posts: 2178 Location: North Carolina
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I would say that there is far more confusion about what the term "working distance" means than violators. Especially when we mark cabinets based on the upstream arc flash hazard potential where any work rarely needs to be done.
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JKlessig
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:00 am |
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Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:40 am Posts: 119
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ANy one who has ever leaned in to read the (absurdly fine) print on a breaker has been closer than that. Any one who has connected any thing to equipment at the back of a cubiclel, has been closer than 18" from the front...
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Zog
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Post subject: Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:47 am |
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Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:58 am Posts: 1103 Location: Charlotte, NC
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This is the issue I have with arc rated gloves, often I see them selected based on the Ei at the working distance when in fact they are much closer and therefore under protected.
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jvrielink
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Post subject: Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:56 pm |
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Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:03 am Posts: 70 Location: Netherlands
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Zog wrote: This is the issue I have with arc rated gloves, often I see them selected based on the Ei at the working distance when in fact they are much closer and therefore under protected. What do you base the selection on? NFPA 70E only gives a general requirement to consider the higher Ei, but I find it hard to turn this into practical solution. Do you calculate for two working distances? Add a % on top of the regular ATPV?
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Jerry Lively
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 11:07 am |
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Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:28 am Posts: 2 Location: Roanoke Virginia area
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brainfiller wrote: An arc flash calculation study requires calculating the incident energy at a specific working distance from the worker's face and chest to the prospective arc flash location. The working distance is typically listed on the arc flash label. Here is this week's question: Have you or your co-workers / clients ever had to work closer to energizied equipment than the "working distance"? (face and chest) Stories about your own experiences are always welcome. Commissioning Drives, it is often required to reach beyond the drive front to get to some circuits on the back panel. This places the potential source of an Arc Flash incident at your chest and face. It is difficult to get older Field Engineers to keep in mind to maintain the "Working Distance" of 18" in our 480 Volt drive. Wearing PPE for the older FE's is a growing success... It is just a different mindset.
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Zog
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:40 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:58 am Posts: 1103 Location: Charlotte, NC
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jvrielink wrote: What do you base the selection on? NFPA 70E only gives a general requirement to consider the higher Ei, but I find it hard to turn this into practical solution. Do you calculate for two working distances? Add a % on top of the regular ATPV? Don't use them, we use rubber gloves with leather protectors
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Jerry Lively
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:44 pm |
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Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:28 am Posts: 2 Location: Roanoke Virginia area
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Zog wrote: Don't use them, we use rubber gloves with leather protectors Our Field Engineers use PPE... My comment that the tasks required during commissioning brings your body closer than 18" (the design distance for effective PPE use) when reaching beyond the front of the drive cabinets... I did not intend to mean we were not using PPE...
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Jim Phillips (brainfiller)
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Post subject: Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 8:46 am |
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Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:00 pm Posts: 1736 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
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Great comments everyone! I think this shows that although a working distance is needed to define the incident energy and/or protection, it is not always practical to adhear to. I hate to say it but in years past, I have had my face too close to energized parts on more than one occasion.
_________________ Jim Phillips, P.E. Brainfiller.com
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