1. Create Your User Profile and Status Updates

    Arc Flash Forum members are invited to create a user profile. Let others know who you are, what you do and even add a picture or avatar of yourself. What are you up to? Let people in the arc flash and electrical safety community know with "status updates"!
  2. Welcome to the All New Arc Flash Forum

    Arc Flash Forum is a community where we help each other learn about arc flash and electrical safety. There is still much to be learned about arc flash, standards, PPE, studies and more and We need your HELP!

    If you have good information about Arc Flash - Post It! If you have a question about Arc Flash - Post It! If you can provide answers to Arc Flash questions - Post it!

    Sign up as a today member! Feel free to link to this site www.arcflashforum.com. Tell your friends. We want to help everyone be safe in the workplace!
  3. Bigger and Better!

    As you have no doubt noticed, the forum has been through quite an upgraded and looks and feels very nice! There are loads of new features and ways in which this site can now be even more useful to the community in learning about Arc Flash and Electrical Safety.

    Create your detailed user profile
    Add a profile photo of yourself
    Like the forum on Facebook
    "Like" users' posts
    Publish your articles in the library
    ...and much, much more!

    Learn More About the New Features Here

Operating a disconnect handle

Discussion in 'Electrical Safety Practices' started by Canuck01, Nov 19, 2009.

  1. Canuck01 Member

    Another debate is raging at my site:

    Where do you stand when operating a disconnect handle. Presently we train people to stand on the hinge side to operate the disconnect handle.
    Personally, I think standing on the handle side is safer for a number of reasons
    • The door won’t fly open and bash your arm or other part of your body
    • The arc (if it comes from the bucket) will be directed out, not out and sideways so exposure should be limited to a hand/forearm.
    There is no direction in NFPA or CSA for standing on the hinge side

    Maybe I’m wrong – is it statistically proven to be safer on either side??

    Remote operation is always the answer but not practical for the amount of equipment at site.

    Ideas or comments?
  2. THE CABLE GUY Well-Known Member

    To stand on the hinged side and operate a safety switch is crazy. :eek: That would mean your body is in front of the door and throwing with the right arm.

    Who in the world would argue this? You always throw from the left throw side with the left arm facing away from the switch.
  3. THE CABLE GUY Well-Known Member

  4. Zog Well-Known Member

    There are pros and cons to both, the door may hit you, but it will also act as an arc sheild, in theory anyways.

    Assuming the arc flash will come straight out is a dangerous assumption, standing on the non hinged side will protect you from the door but put you at a higher risk for a burn injury. Arc testing has shown that arc flashes do strange things and the projected path is very unpredictable.

    Go here http://www.westexinc.com/

    Click on video library and watch top ten clip #9.

    When deciding where to stand, you need to consider several things, the configuration of the equipment, your exit route, etc...
  5. Terry Becker Member

    I agree with Zog's comments and I recommend to my clients:

    1. Have a written procedure in place. Train workers on this procedure.
    2. Stand on the hinged side and follow the written procedure.

    I would take the broken bones, over the burn.

    There is no direction on this in CSA Z462 and most likely you will never see this detail in the Standard.

    Regards;
    Terry Becker, P.Eng.
    Owner
    ESPS Electrical Safety Program Solution INC.
  6. Canuck01 Member

    Where to stand redux...

    Darn it.
    It was looking good for a while but now we're all over the place!
    Knowing everyone is in their arc flash gear makes it more likely that the safe place is the handle side. Taking the opposite view means that broken bones are acceptable even in arc flash PPE??
    I definitely think the handle side is safer still but will reason prevail?

    Still looking for a somewhat definitive answer.:confused:
  7. THE CABLE GUY Well-Known Member

    Again, I would never stand on the hindged side UNLESS the handle is located on the hinged side. That could be a good manfacturing rule.

    Are you guys crazy? Reaching across from the hinged side to the throw side to turn on a disconnect places your whole body in front of the disconnect. (IF THE HANDLE IS ON THE RIGHT SIDE)

    :confused:

    Come on Zog & Terry, were both to old to think this is wise (stand on the hinged side??)

    Give me something to change my mind.
  8. Zog Well-Known Member

    As I posted, there is no simple answer, there are other factors involved. If you need to reach across the switch then I agreem the hinged side may not be the best place to stand, but where are your exits? Any other hazards?

    Generally I think hinged side is safer for breakers and other equipment but in this case I would most likely be on the non-hinged side.
  9. elihuiv Well-Known Member

    Which Side of the Disconnect Debate

    1. Stand out of the line-of-fire
    2. Take a deep breath and hold it.
    3. Turn your head away.

    We get into this debate all the time. I usually prefer the unhinged side.

    1. Yes if you are not in FR you MIGHT be a little bit better on the hinge side.
    2. The hinge side of a disconnect isn't likely to break bones. A switchgear might.
    3. I prefer the side because MOST of the time it comes out. It is a good gamble.
    4. I prefer the unhinged side because I want to wear the RIGHT PPE and not use the door as a potentially "bone breaking" shield.

    My thoughts. Just one more opinion.
  10. Zog Well-Known Member

    Just do it all remotely :)
  11. elihuiv Well-Known Member

    Remote

    I'm a huge fan of remote but do you have a remote disconnect operator?
  12. ChevsMark New Member

    That is fine to do remotely...does that mean get someone else to do it for you? :D
    Sometimes you run into a double door enclosure with the disconnect handle in the middle, so you could be really screwed by getting an opening and a hinge.....
    The thing to remember is the rating. A panel with functioning door hardware that is closed is considered to be class 0, which means anyone with or without PPE could throw the switch....
    We train stand to the side, use your left hand, turn your head and throw the switch while stepping away to the rear of the panel. That should aleviate any concern.
  13. Terry Becker Member

    Which hand should you use?

    Here is another comment, I am right handed, I would prefer to use the hand and arm that I normally use. I wouldn't be comfortable using my left hand, especially if I stood with my back to the MCC, and opened the breaker this way (some have suggested to do this).

    So I still think, hinged side, use the hand I am used to using so I have the best sense if the handle doesn't open normally.

    Whatever you decide, write it down, and train workers so it is consistently applied.

    Terry Becker, P.Eng.
    ESPS Electrical Safety Program Solutions INC.
    terry.becker@espsi.ca
    403-465-3777
  14. Zog Well-Known Member

    Sure do, we currently have remote actuators for 120 different applications. All done wirelessly with no modification needed to the equipment.
  15. Wormfood New Member

    How do you LOTO with a remote disconnect?
  16. Zog Well-Known Member

    After the switch is open the "interaction" is complete and installing a lock on the switch would not require PPE. Of course that is the way I interpret "interaction" others may have a different view, it is a little grey area.

    Now PPE will be required to do your voltage checks if required, but that may be at a different location and only required if the nature of the LOTO is for electrical work.
  17. PUCKMAN Member

    If a worker like a machine operator has to open or close a 480 v breaker and does not need to do any voltage testing can he open or close the cb with one of the adjustable poles the electricians use ? Will he have to maintain a distance from cb and does he need ppe? Will this be acceptable to osha and nfpa ?
  18. haze10 Well-Known Member

    You are talking 'dead front' work. Unless you believe the switch to constitute 'high energy' ie, something similar to switchgear, then the answer is that arc flash ppe is not mandated (note I did not say 'required' or 'recommended'). The person doing this work should have some basic training, ie, where to stand, visual check the equipment, what to do if something goes wrong, etc.
  19. cbauer Well-Known Member

    Regardless of which side of the safety switch you stand on when operating the handle, I do not think that the normal response of turning your face away is the best option. I believe that the Cat 2 face shield will only provide protection if you are facing the fault, unless you are wearing a balaclava. Or is this line of reasoning completely off base?
  20. Zog Well-Known Member

    The facesheild can become an "arc scoop", not good.

Share This Page