NFPA 70e firefighter

[fmpid]

I am a structural firefighter. Our gear is designed for NFPA 1971-2009 requirement. I can find sufficient documentation for electrical conductivity (ie boots are 1q4,000 V) but nothing on Arc Protection. Often we have to operate sizable switchgears to secure power and we often have such discussions. Our station gear meets HRC 2 but the question is about our turnouts, boots, and masks. Could anyone provide some direction to find some answers? Manufacturers have been no assistance.

[acobb]

Good Question! Don't know if there is any testing for turnout gear and arc flash. Would expect based on the suits that I have seen and the idea that you go hunting for heat and we are trying to avoid it, your stuff is better than the PPE required for electrical work.

Hope it helps and thanks for what you do!

[Zog]

I am a structural firefighter. Our gear is designed for NFPA 1971-2009 requirement. I can find sufficient documentation for electrical conductivity (ie boots are 1q4,000 V) but nothing on Arc Protection. Often we have to operate sizable switchgears to secure power and we often have such discussions. Our station gear meets HRC 2 but the question is about our turnouts, boots, and masks. Could anyone provide some direction to find some answers? Manufacturers have been no assistance.

There are different testing and design criteria for flash fire rated clothing and arc rated PPE. Hugh will be able to help you with this. Also look at www.westexinc.com

[WDeanN]

I don't know if this is really the case, but my understanding a few years ago was that conventional Nomex is not very good for an electrical arc flash scenario. I don't know if the turnout suits are made from Nomex or not.

Conventional Nomex fibers would expand after being subjected to heat, but would not expand quick enough to protect in an electrical arc flash scenario. I would think, though, that if it is already heated and the fibers are expanded, then it would also protect against electrical arc flash.

But again, the testing standards are different. Hugh would be the man to answer the question on whether or not any of that gear has been tested to arc flash standards.

[fmpid]

Thanks for the responses. Actually the turnout gear (pants/jacket) are not Nomex. They are a PBI Matrix which is a blend of Polybenzimidazole, Aramid, and kevlar. It was developed by NASA after the death of the Apollo Astronauts on the launch pad and directed for use by the fire services throught current times. The folks who make PBI recently provide us some data on our version of turnouts as HRC 4 but provided no formal documentation. Good news. Only wish the manufactures of the face pieces and boots would do the same. Both the boots and face pieces are made of Hycar rubber as the base product. I know they survive a constant 900 F but uncertain if they would take the calories in a flash.

[Zog]

Thanks for the responses. Actually the turnout gear (pants/jacket) are not Nomex. They are a PBI Matrix which is a blend of Polybenzimidazole, Aramid, and kevlar. It was developed by NASA after the death of the Apollo Astronauts on the launch pad and directed for use by the fire services throught current times. The folks who make PBI recently provide us some data on our version of turnouts as HRC 4 but provided no formal documentation. Good news. Only wish the manufactures of the face pieces and boots would do the same. Both the boots and face pieces are made of Hycar rubber as the base product. I know they survive a constant 900 F but uncertain if they would take the calories in a flash.

Hugh, who is a member here, does a lot of testing of these materials and I think he can get your turnout gear tested and give you a real rating. PBI (AGO) makes, IMO, some of the best arc flash PPE on the market. In real life, I am sure your gear will be more than enough to protect you and your crew from any arc flash ou would encounter, it is all about preventing clothing ignition, but to be technically accurate having your gear tested and rated is a good idea.

You have a unique situation, it is not like in a fire fighting situation you will be checking the arc flash labels and using that as a basis to fight a fire or not.

[elihuiv]

Though it isn't designed for arc flash they do very well. I have tested both the Scott and 3M scba gear and though the facepiece can allow infrared radiation burn, they did not ignite at 40 cal.

Most turnout gear (be it Nomex or PBI) is excellent in arc flash. We use the same lining in most of the arc flash gear on the market.

Nomex isn't at all bad in the arc. In shirts it is usually lighter than a treated cotton but excellent in arc flash ounce for ounce (or gram for gram since I'm in the UK and Germany this week).

Balaclava's work by firefighters are almost all arc rated. Majestic and PGI both have rated almost all of theirs.

Don't worry too much about arc flash. Most of the firefighter's I have seen hurt or killed have been from shock or arc blast.

[fmpid]

I appreciate all the responses. I will pass the information to the crew.